We’ve reached the end of the third series of The Defectors, and I want to thank each of my ten participants for their consideration and candor as they shared their stories. The community that has come together around this particular stage in work has blown me away, and I’m happy to have gotten to share even a little bit of it with you this August. More will be coming from me on the topic, so I hope you’ll stay tuned!

[Defectors, Series 1 | Defectors, Series 2]

I want to conclude this year’s edition with some final wisdom, collected from our participants. I asked each of them to answer the vague but essential question for empowerment, “Any parting words on the Defector experience?” Here are some of the answers, and the lessons they highlight:

From Greg Sadler, reluctant but now confident entrepreneur: it’s okay that you might not have imagined this for yourself when you started your career.

I never thought I’d be doing anything remotely like this ten years ago. Quite frankly, the catalyst for me was not the independence being an entrepreneur brings, or the potential of making a better income than as an underpaid university professor.

I left a position where I was coming up for early tenure and promotion, had written portions of the 10 year Quality Enhancement Plan for the university, and was carrying out university wide assessment.  I did that for love, moving up to New York, where my fiancee lived and worked, in a still-terrible job market.  I did continue to teach as an adjunct, but over time I became more and more a post-academic entrepreneur.

There were a lot of growing pains, setbacks, and learning experiences, but seven years in I’m doing fairly well and still growing in my profession.  So I’m happy with being a “defector”!

From Ashlie Baty Petz, tech sector program manager: it’s okay to protect your time and energy by taking your skills somewhere new.

I do not regret my decision to leave and am MUCH HAPPIER in my current role (no night/weekend work!). I am financially stable and have a positive work/life blend. I wouldn’t be in my current role without my higher ed background/degree, but I am overall very glad that I made the jump to the tech industry.

From Bonnie Fox, speaker agent and frequent business owner: the impact we have on students doesn’t go away just because we do.

I loved my time with my students in Student Activities. With the help of facebook, I’ve reconnected with many of them…and loved to see the small part I had in forming them into the productive adults they are now. Some have taken my lead and left and started businesses…some have gone into the field…but it is so satisfying that with whatever they choose to do…they look back on the time we had together as one that helped steer them; mold them; teach them; empower them into the awesome people they are today.

From Liz Rader Haigler, HR pro: we need to treat each other better as we make decisions and explore options.

As SA pros we need to support people who have “left” but also support people who have “stayed”. I don’t think the inside/outside dynamic is necessary. I made a choice to apply my trade in a different environment and others acted like they couldn’t even connect with me anymore or I had betrayed the SA profession. We need to celebrate what people chose to do with their skills no matter the place they choose to apply them.

Closely related to that, from Anne Scheideler Sweet, consultant: you might feel alone in some of this. You’re not.

There are others out there rooting for you!

From Mike Conte, staffing professional and founder of the Expatriates of Student Affairs Facebook Group: enjoy your Labor Day, if you have it 🙂

It’s been really fun. I’ve learned so much and got to work with ton of people who I would never have meet in Higher Ed. My Line of work attracts a lot of different backgrounds.

If things were different, If my last job had been better, maybe I would have stayed, and maybe I might go back in a Career Advising role someday….but for now I am really happy about not having to work Labor Day moving in students.

Some more reading on the topic:

• From the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice:
  Attrition from Student Affairs: Perspectives from Those Who Exited the Profession
• From Defector alum Kayley Robsham:
  Why I Left Student Affairs to Become an Entrepreneur
• From Defector alum Paul Brown:
  Why I Made the Jump from Higher Ed Institution to Higher Ed Tech Company
• From fellow Defector Keith Edwards:
  10 Lessons from 6 Months of Working Independently
• Shared by Liz Rader Haigler:
  from Harvard Business Review, Why You Should Have At Least Two Careers

Thanks all for reading, and happy Defecting!

With the skill-sets and knowledge I had to draw upon, would I really have something cogent and on-point to say to professionals in other fields? As it turns out, the answer is yes, and that fear for the most part dissipated.

-Greg Sadler, Entrepreneur and Proud Defector

In this week’s edition of Defectors in Conversation, I’m really pleased to introduce you to Nicolle, Greg, and Anne.

Nicolle Merrill (NM) worked in higher ed and Defected twice. First as a Global Programs Manager at Foster School of Business; she left that role for a job as a private jet travel writer in digital marketing at a luxury tourism company. The second role was as an International Student Career Coach in Career Services at Yale School of Management. After two years, she left that to start an online career school for university alumni.

Greg Sadler (GS) is currently president of ReasonIO and editor of Stoicism Today. For about a decade, he worked as a Philosophy professor, and towards the end started moving into assessment, faculty development, and administration.

Anne Scheideler Sweet (AS) spent almost 12 years cobbling together a career in higher ed career while her husband’s military service moved her and her family all over the world.

Get to know them and their wisdom this week in Defectors in Conversation!

Briefly, what got you curious about “breaching the bubble” of your former field/work?

GS: I was already doing that to some extent, simply because I viewed Philosophy as a practical and interdisciplinary activity. So, while doing the typical academic activities – teaching, research, publication, etc. – I was also getting involved in bringing philosophy outside of the academy into more public, practical, and other professional spaces.

I got to make my transition from traditional academia to becoming an entrepreneur and practical philosopher in a more gradual way than many. With each new project, platform, or service I took on, I perceived new opportunities, made additional contacts, and got drawn into thinking about how to make philosophy accessible and applicable for others.

NM: I was curious about [it] for two reasons: I wanted to build more skills and I couldn’t see a path forward. I worked with such good people and had a fabulous boss at Foster; I loved working in international education. But I couldn’t see a path forward.

AS: [In a somewhat opposite issue,] I worked really hard to build a career trajectory for myself and, for a very long time, I wasn’t willing or able to see a way out of the field. I was approached by a friend to consider applying my skills to their family business/startup and decided to take a leap of faith.

NM: When I looked at possible paths to advance I saw limited roles and honestly, just a lot more meetings and too much time spent thinking about budgets. Those options weren’t a fit for me. I was also in program management which didn’t provide many opportunities to increase my skill set. I left for a job that allowed me to build cutting edge skills in digital marketing.

I didn’t think I would return to higher ed but two years later an opportunity opened up at Yale that aligned with my passion for global careers. It was a new role, so I could craft it the way I wanted which appealed to me. I loved that job too. But again the lack of advancement opportunities was a problem. On top of that, there was a relentless focus on MBA rankings at the expense of innovation and change. The rankings game is a common problem in higher education and it preserves the status quo in a time when higher education needs to change. I was curious about changing the traditional career education model so that it better prepared workers for the advances in AI and automation. There wasn’t room for that at Yale SOM (because rankings). So I left for the second time.

Were there any fears at play when you decided to make the jump?

GS: Quite honestly, I had three main fears.

One is the “imposter syndrome” that we’re all familiar with. With the skill-sets and knowledge I had to draw upon, would I really have something cogent and on-point to say to professionals in other fields? As it turns out, the answer is yes, and that fear for the most part dissipated.

AS: Somewhat related to that, my biggest fear was being perceived as a failure for giving up/not being able to “hack it” in higher ed. I haven’t written or posted much about my transition due to still wrestling with those feelings.

GS: Another was almost the opposite of that first fear. Would I be taken seriously as an expert in my field – for example, in my early YouTube videos – even though, in my view, I was practically a “nobody”? I didn’t have a particularly good pedigree, institutional post, and hadn’t published all that much. That fear went away as well, as people responded very positively to the content I provided and the competence I displayed.

NM: [I can understand that.] The first time I was worried they wouldn’t think I was a qualified candidate because program management is not the most competitive skill or a hot job title.

GS: The third main fear was whether I would really be able to earn a living by getting people to pay for my services. That worry is a particularly tough one to get past, especially since some months are lean and others flush when it comes to business!

I was truly confident in the value of working for humans who cared about me as a person and in an environment where changes were possible and encouraged based on what’s important to us as people (kids, family, flexibility, innovation, creativity).

Greg, I have definitely been there…on all three fronts, now that I think about it! Conversely, what were you really confident in?

NM:  I was confident I could create a professional narrative that focused on my communication skills, educated employers about the skills it takes to run successful programs, and convince them that I was a nontraditional candidate to take a chance on. It worked 🙂

AS:  I was truly confident in the value of working for humans who cared about me as a person and in an environment where changes were possible and encouraged based on what’s important to us as people (kids, family, flexibility, innovation, creativity).

What challenges did you have as you adjusted to your new role and new environment?

AS: Still within my first 6 months of the change, so far I’m stumbling over boundaries and time management.

GS: [As a business owner and independent worker,] my two biggest challenges are marketing and maintaining contacts. Both of those are tough to pack into what is always a very busy schedule. The one – maintaining contacts – is actually something I really do enjoy doing, except if I’m feeling embarrassed about failing to keep in touch for a while – and then I have to watch that I don’t fall into that cycle of not keeping in touch, feeling guilty, and putting off getting back into contact until I’ve got the time to write something really substantive. I’ve gotten better about that.

Marketing is still a challenge for me. It’s something that’s absolutely necessary, and I’ve gotten over the “this is self-promotion” hurdle, but I still don’t like to devote time to it. So that is a work in progress.

NM: I had to get used to creative collaboration. I joined a creative team where brainstorming ideas and constant iteration were all in a day’s work. The team was quite flat compared to the hierarchy in higher education. I adapted and loved it eventually but I had to get used to sharing my ideas, getting shut down, building on coworker’s ideas, and working seamlessly with people from diverse skill sets and backgrounds (digital designers, editors, account managers) on one team. Conversely, returning to higher education for a second time after that experience into a non-creative, hierarchical environment was actually harder.

What skills served you well in your transition?

NM: Above all, communication skills. Writing and public speaking are my strengths; I used them a lot during my time in higher education. Lots of people forget the ways you use communication in program management. From engaging students in creative ways to creating documents/resources to presenting on topics, there are so many ways you build communication skills in program management! Those skills are highly transferable and employers value them!

AS: [Case in point:] I’m a shy introvert, so I really don’t love being on the phone, but phone based customer service has been huge for me – being able to talk to anyone and work through an issue together spans all industries. Cleaning up data/records is also a really valuable skill.

NM: Second, my ability to develop a narrative around my higher education experience. You can’t assume employers understand your role. You can’t rely on your job title or your institution’s brand name. You have to explain it to them in their industry language. Show it in your resume, on LinkedIn, in your discussions with people in the industry (hello networking!). A 60 second story that explains what you did in higher education and how it relates to the job you want is incredibly valuable.

GS: As it turns out, one of my talents is for taking complex philosophical concepts from difficult texts, and explaining them so that non-specialists can understand, incorporate, and apply them. I also seem to have fallen into a good balance between maintaining real rigor when it comes to ideas and their application, and engaging with my clients or audience in ways that make them feel valued, not “talked down to.”

What suggestions do you have for people nervous about (or struggling to) articulate their value “on the outside”?

GS: This is where certain approaches in practical philosophy can be very helpful, because that nervousness or difficulty tends to be one of those matters where thought, experience, action, and emotion are coming together in complex ways. Going from my own experience and that of others I’ve discussed this with, fear of rejection holds many people back from making a pitch about what value they have to contribute.

As academics it can be especially tough, since many of us have tendencies to over-explain matters, and to stick with areas we feel ourselves experts in. So sometimes we just don’t make the pitch at all, and we pass up potential opportunities. These are sometimes opportunities to make a connection, a booking, a sale, but sometimes also opportunities to get rejected and develop resiliency about rejection.

AS: For me, asking questions about other people’s work and sharing what I loved about my work was what ultimately led to more serious discussions. I think it’s helpful to learn as much as you can on your own, talk to people on the outside and try things out if you can.

NM: Figure out what you’re good at now while you’re in your role. Ask your coworkers or ask your boss what they think you do really well. Then find a job description or two that interests you so you have a target to work towards. Start by reading job descriptions without talking yourself out of them. Learn the vocabulary of your target job and industry. For example, if you promote programs to students on social media and email, you’re working in digital marketing. If you manage multiple projects and budgets, you’re doing project management. Use a tool like jobscan.co to compare your resume with the job description to figure out if you’re communicating your experience in the language an employer expects.

Then note which skills you need to work on to get the job you want. Find a way to work on those skills while you’re still working! Ask friends in other departments what they’re working on. Ask how you might collaborate so you can build the missing skills.

Finally, talk to everyone. Leave your desk and start asking people about their jobs. What do they like? What don’t they like? What would they do if they weren’t in higher ed? Talk to your friends about their jobs. Then practice telling people what interests you. You need to get comfortable talking about what you want and what you do well. Start small. Practice saying things like, “I’m interested in digital marketing because I’ve have really good success running our social media recruiting campaigns at UW” to people you meet.

The more you tell people what you can do, the more confident you get, and the more people can help you.

Start by reading job descriptions without talking yourself out of them. Learn the vocabulary of your target job and industry.

Special thanks to Anne, Greg, and Nicolle for sharing their time, energy, and wisdom with me for this series. 

The long term security of a known paycheck, health insurance and retirement that went away was very scary. I struggled with the pros and cons for about a year before actually making the leap. BUT once the words came out of my mouth…it was like an elephant was lifted off my chest and it was incredibly empowering and exhilarating moving forward.

-Bonnie Fox, Speaker Agent and Proud Defector

In this week’s edition of Defectors in Conversation, be pleased to meet Bonnie, Chelsea, and Sharon.

Chelsea Haring (CH) serves as the Chief Operations Office at Switchboard in Portland, OR. She spent 12 years in career services at Portland State University, Wingate University and Johns Hopkins University. During her career, she worked almost every corner of a career center and developed a deep understanding of emerging trends and potential for innovation in the field.

Bonnie Fox (BF) is an agent with S.P.E.A.K. Educators, the speaker division of FUN Enterprises. She was in Student Affairs in Student Activities as a director at a medium size Community College in Washington State and a medium size State University in Connecticut. She oversaw a paid leadership program that produced events on campus for students.

Sharon Manson (SM) serves as the Educational Program Manager at University of North Texas’s Health Science Center. She comes to that work after 25 years in student housing, and in that time served as an RD, Area Coordinator, General Manager and Director of Residence Life for a private housing company, and a director of residence life for a small private university.

Get to know them and their wisdom this week in Defectors in Conversation!

Briefly, what got you curious about “breaching the bubble” of your former field/work?

BF: I had started a business on the side in my 3rd year of working in Student Affairs…by year 5, it had taken off and had been a solid business that could support me full time…although it was very scary (state comforts like health insurance and 401K) I took the leap and haven’t looked back. I left the field 17 years ago and have recently just sold my last of the 4 businesses that I started.

SM:  I loved residence life and might have stayed in Student Affairs (I was “in line for the Dean of Students position”), but I got caught up in office politics. My boss (Dean of Students) was disliked by his (VP Student Services). She put the pieces in play and had the opportunity to get rid of him (on the day before his doctoral hooding no less) – the person she hired fired me exactly a month later.

I’ve looked outside of higher ed, but always came back – while my coworkers grumbled about the extra work, I genuinely enjoyed orientation and graduation. Working in Residence Life and with RAs, I did get to see the growth we hope to encourage (with most of them).

CH:  I […] have a background in tech and was assigned to every tech sourcing committee at the institutions I worked. I implemented over 33 products over the 12 years and developed a robust vendor network and understanding of how software can scale student success and young alumni career support for institutions.

SM:  Isn’t that the norm – if you have special interest/skill you tend to get put on every committee that relates to it.  It either burn you out or energize you! 🙂

CH: The last year I was at Hopkins, I spent a year researching innovation trends in career services and realized so many teams were struggling with the same challenges. I understood for me to have an influence on the field, I should go into the private sector and try to work with multiple teams at once through consulting/technology solutions. 3 years ago, I transitioned into ed tech as a higher ed industry consultant. I spent time at Handshake working with their product, customer experience and support teams and have been at Switchboard the past year building out a services arm of the company and driving their growth strategy.

The last year I was at Hopkins, I spent a year researching innovation trends in career services and realized so many teams were struggling with the same challenges.

Each of you had that same point where you decided you needed a change- what was your biggest fear in making the jump out of what you’d been doing?SM: I had imposter syndrome big time. I had to give workshops to medical doctors who are teaching in med. school or residency. I thought they’d see through me and that I didn’t really have that much to offer them. (They were supposed to be the smartest people in the room).

BF: The long term security of a known paycheck, health insurance and retirement that went away was very scary. I struggled with the pros and cons for about a year before actually making the leap. BUT once the words came out of my mouth…it was like an elephant was lifted off my chest and it was incredibly empowering and exhilarating moving forward.

CH: I had two “biggest” fears:

1. I didn’t have any formal training in business and operations.

2. I have 3 kids now 7,5,3 and having control over my schedule and making sure I have time to be a mom is really important to me. I feared I would give that up moving into working for tech startups.

These are all really well-founded fears, and it’s great to know that you found ways to address them as you made your move.

It’s also incredibly important to highlight that you do have what it takes to be successful in your latest roles. In contrast to your own worries, what were you really confident in?

CH: I was very confident in my industry knowledge and the problems that were top of mind for so many teams and how ed tech could forge better partnerships with institutions.

SM: I had confidence in my experience leading RA training and teaching class (teaching listening skills, feedback, documentation, and team building).

BF: [In a combination of the two,] I was very confident in my customer base…we were selling to my Student Activities counterparts and I KNEW Student Activities so I was very confident in my abilities and connections.

How did the adaptation process go? What challenges did you have as you adjusted to your new role and new environment?

BF: I thought long hours were reserved to Student Affairs professionals…boy did I under estimate what it took to run your own business! I put in WAY more hours on my business, but it was a labor of love and often it just didn’t feel like “work”.

CH: I found I actually worked more hours in a week in higher ed, but the hyper efficient/productivity pace and tools available to drive efficiency took me a couple of months to get used to.

BF: I moved offices 4 times in 5 years…working from home; from small cramped offices in the back of a converted old Ice Storage warehouse; to traditional office space; to a converted old thread mill in a creepy old mill warehouse; to a brand new office/warehouse build to spec for ME! All of them had their pros and cons and we always made do, but not having the luxury of access to brand new equipment, computers, printers etc was a hard transition.

And I missed the student interaction…the learning…the “ah-ha moments” when it just clicked. When an event was executed perfectly, when their timelines WORKED! I really missed that part.

SM: I was also used to a much more lively, casual atmosphere with students around. I’m now in an office with no student workers and the students I work with are either off-site or come to campus once a month. I do miss the laughter of college students just being goofy – it kept me young.

I was used to teaching college-age students, who were eager to listen and learn as they started new jobs. I assumed the doctors I talked to had much of the knowledge they were asking me to teach, but so much of what I took for granted that they knew had never been taught to them. (“when you… I feel…” SOLAR – squared, open, lean, eye contact, relax).

What skills served you well in your transition?

BF: I adapt well and quickly assimilate. I am a pro multitasker which is valuable when you are in sales; customer service; production and head of shipping and receiving! I also knew the ebb and flow of the academic year so I was able to work hard…really hard during the “hot” times and knew that just over the horizon it was going to slow down…something that I really really looked forward to!

SM:  I’m fairly adept at making people feel comfortable (all those years of move-in, orientation, RA programs, pizza parties, and dealing with parents) and trained my staff in a version of servant leadership, but I’ve gotten more thank you’s for responding to emails or sending detailed emails about conferences (I coordinate 3 regional ones). I think all of the years of focusing on marketing and leasing (and talking to students and parents during orientations) has developed skills that I took for granted.

CH: [In a good mix of Sharon and Bonnie’s answers,]I have always had a high EQ and my ability to navigate higher ed as an incredibly relationship driven industry has been the most valuable asset in the transition I made. I am flexible and adaptable and a very strategic thinker. I am also incredibly mission driven. My years of listening to students and alumni and internal campus partners positioned me well to take my coaching skill set and apply the same frameworks to university teams who were struggling to meet competing demands. I have always been really organized and a multi tasker, that is a must in this business.

What suggestions do you have for people nervous about (or struggling to) articulate their value “on the outside”?

SM: Don’t doubt yourself. The skills that you’ve gained in student affairs are needed in other fields. Find what you really like/liked to do and capitalize on that.

BF: I tell people to write down a list (I am a master of lists!) and put down all the things that they currently are doing in their job. Then you convert it to skills. You submit purchase orders and keep a budget…You’re in charge of Finances! You meet with your staff weekly for progress reports and if there are any problems…You’re Human Resources!

SM: I would have thought my experience juggling multiple project or creating and managing budgets of over $3 million would be my “value” but its the soft people skills that people are impressed with — and it’s the thing that I enjoy

BF: Its simply amazing when you do this to see what you are capable of. When you SEE the list you instantly become confident in your abilities…what you thought was mundane daily tasks you can see how they quickly relate to bigger and broader life skills! It creates a “I don’t know if I can…” feeling into “I’m already doing it…I CAN” feeling. And that’s affirming and confident building and so exciting.

CH:  I actually get a handful of people reaching out every month asking to hear about my transition. There is a huge talent drain right now in higher ed. The forward thinking, emerging innovators are frustrated and bored and tired of trying to better meet the needs of students, but struggling to be efficient in the complicated organizational structures of their institutions. I encourage people to try something on the side whether it is private practice consulting project work, advising work for a higher education vendor or volunteer work to try and assess what the day to day is like.

I also encourage people to make a list of their 3 absolutes–the things that have to be there for them to make the transition and hold true to those. There is a negative stigma (in some circles in the private sector) about higher ed professionals. I had to work incredibly hard to prove myself and my ability to be a top performer. Many people view higher ed as slow moving, behind in terms of business operations and inefficient. I had to work against that stereotype.

The great thing is there is so much opportunity in industry to take on additional projects, volunteer and network that you can prove yourself as a strategic asset and high performer quickly. It only took me about 6 weeks to get over that hump.

Don’t doubt yourself. The skills that you’ve gained in student affairs are needed in other fields. Find what you really like/liked to do and capitalize on that.

Special thanks to Chelsea, Bonnie, and Sharon for sharing their time, energy, and wisdom with me for this series. 

Today marks the start of the third series of The Defectors, and you might find it’s taken on a different form from its last two iterations. And there’s a reason for that.

When I first Defected, one of the biggest challenges I never expected to feel was feeling isolated. Between going into business for myself, and not knowing too many others who had taken a similar path out of traditional higher education work, I found myself feeling more alone than I had ever imagined.

This year, I wanted to combat that for others in a very specific way: by pulling stories, and the Defectors who tell them, together. You’ll be treated to conversations between Defectors, sharing their challenges and successes with one another – and by extension, you all.

Meet Bonnie, Sharon, and Chelsea

Meet Anne, Greg, and Nicolle

Meet Ashlie, Corey, Liz, and Mike

In addition to this new format, this month will also feature the debut of Defector Academy, a personalized coaching experience for those seriously considering defecting from higher education and in need of guidance. Sign up for the mailing list to get more details, and check out the full program at its home base.

Enrollment for Defector Academy is now closed. Stay tuned for more learning and contributing opportunities!

I don’t want this series to just be a conversation between the participants, though. I want this to be a conversation between you and I. I’d love to hear from you: what questions do you have about Defecting? What do you worry about most? Are you curious about how your talents could best be utilized? Is the Defector Academy program a fit for you?

Ask away, and I’ll be answering them over the course of the month via Twitter and Instagram!